Tags: Dylan Mason, WorkSafe, seismic mitigation, earthquake

Part two here.

Transcript:

Host: Michael Johnson – PodTech
Guest: Kevin Hohenbrink – F5 Networks

Michael Johnson – PodTech
This is Michael Johnson and we have on the line with us today Kevin Hohenbrink who is the optimization product manager for the product WANJet over at F5 Networks. So welcome to the podcast, Kevin.

Kevin Hohenbrink – F5 Networks
Well thank you.

Michael Johnson – PodTech
Now today we’re going to talk about some interesting things that have to do with how a business runs. We are going to talk about Disaster Recovery and Continuity. Now these are couple of terms that we hear are RTO and RPO and its importance to the Continuity Disaster Recovery Plan. Let us define what those terms are and explain how that works in this picture.

Kevin Hohenbrink – F5 Networks
So the two terms RTO and RPO, Recovery Time Objective and I’m going to use some sort of industry definitions that are pretty accepted by everybody. This is the maximum viable downtime after an outage for recovering systems, applications and functions. RTO provides the basis for developing cost effective recovery strategies and effectively getting the resources up and working again and implementing these recovery strategies during a disaster situation. Typically companies will measure in minutes to hours the downtime, their RTO and RPO. There was a recent study done by Forrester that talks about – in the event of a primary data center site failure, that 45% of North American respondents and 47% of European respondents recover in five hours or less. However, only a small percentage of those respondents, 8% North America and 7% European Theater could measure their recovery time in 120 minutes or less. Recovery point objective as per the industry standard definition, defines how current or fresh the data is after a disaster. Recovery point objective, the RPO, is really the earliest point in time which systems and data must be recovered after an outage. RPO typically defines maximum amount of data that the organization is willing to sacrifice after a disaster. And the zero RPO business continuity solution can survive a disaster without any loss of data and that typically tends to be very expensive. Another data point from a Forrester study — the same Forrester study, in the event of a primary data center site failure there was as much as 55% of North American respondents and 59% of European respondents. They would lose about five hours of data or less. 28% of the North American respondents and 27% of the European respondents could measure their data loss in less than 120 minutes. So when you put these two together RTO and RPO, they provide a measurable target for business continuity and Disaster Recovery Solutions. At any time you can improve the RTO and RPO, you got to increase your investment in networking and storage technologies as a result. The physical distance between your data center is typically and how well your applications tolerate network latency affect how close you’re going to get to zero RPO. This is why you should limit your RTO and RPO to whatever levels your organization can tolerate from a cost perspective.

Michael Johnson – PodTech
Well let’s talk a little bit talk about that cost and what’s the impact of the WAN on those recovery objectives when we talk about that distance and how far out your network goes?

Kevin Hohenbrink – F5 Networks
Okay. So a comprehensive Disaster Recovery Solution typically requires an investment, multiple hardened (ph) recovery sites, duplicating the IT assets such as your servers and your storage arrays, your networking equipment and you typically do it at all these sites and then having the replication software and the necessary bandwidth between these sites. Typically, the cost of bandwidth is often a significant component of the cost of Disaster Recovery Solutions that rely on data replication between these sites. There was a Forrester survey that said 25% of North American enterprises and 26% of the European enterprises reported that cost of bandwidth was representing between 20 and 30 percent of the total cost of data replication and again these are recurring monthly costs.

Michael Johnson – PodTech
Let’s talk a little bit more about that network — the idea of the transport network. How does that affect your recovery objectives in the long run?

Kevin Hohenbrink – F5 Networks
So the amount of bandwidth and the type of network transport selected whether it’s Wavelength Sonic Ethernet or IP is really the key to achieving desired recovery objectives. Limiting the impact and latency to the business applications and increasing the distance between the sites. WAN connectivity issues such as latency, reliability limit to service options and limited bandwidth may make significant impacts in improving recovery objectives and we’re going to talk more about this as we go through this, I’m sure.

Michael Johnson – PodTech
Let’s talk a little bit more about some of those characteristics and break that down a little bit more because I think it’s — we kind of went over it kind of quickly but I think they’re pretty important points.

Kevin Hohenbrink – F5 Networks
Sure. So the inherent characteristics you are going to find on a WAN network are latency, this is typically caused by limits to the speed of light over distance. You are going to have packet loss, caused by signal degradation over the network medium, over saturating network links, corrupting packets, rejected in transit or faulty network hardware. Network congestion, a big key point — excessive, lots of data on the network slows overall transmission speed kind of like too many cars on the freeway. Actual bandwidth is not the expected bandwidth often due to a combination of the factors listed above, whether its latency, packet loss or network congestion and of course last is expensive bandwidth. Large pipes can incur significant monthly costs. Unfortunately, such factors as these can often cripple a D R plan. WAN links are often subject to variable congestion caused by other application traffic, file transfers, even possibly other migration or recovery activities. This means your RPO and RTO that are met in minutes, can now be completely unobtainable the next minute due to congestion. So heavy latency do perhaps to extended distances can prevent meeting RPOs and RTOs irrespective of how much bandwidth is used. So adding more bandwidth doesn’t always solve all of your problems.

Michael Johnson – PodTech
Okay and now when people think about networks going down, sometimes they think okay, you know it is time we take a coffee break and you know, that’s kind of what it is but its — we’re talking a lot more stuff is on the table here besides this lost revenue, just things going down. What are some other key factors that are you know going to fuel that need to really improve your recovery capabilities of your business?

Kevin Hohenbrink – F5 Networks
Sure. So it’s also the cost associated with permanent customer loss and the ability of competitors to gain market share. So aside from the cost of downtime, additional drivers feeling the need to improve recovery capabilities are going to include increased risk fiduciary responsibilities to your shareholders, competitiveness in the market and of course regulatory like SOX and HIPAA are additional legal drivers. So based on recent events especially here in North America including terrorist attacks, blackouts, earthquakes, hurricanes wildfires and on and on, the perceived risk level is increasing among enterprises. So and additionally due to a significant number of corporate scandals that led to such government oversight and regulatory Sarbanes-Oxley, enterprises that operate in the business environment have increased fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders, partners and customers and even their own employees.

Michael Johnson – PodTech
Okay, now F5 is in the network business. Is there a WAN optimization appliance solution that you have?

Kevin Hohenbrink – F5 Networks
Absolutely. The WAN optimization solution from F5 is the WANJet product. F5’s WANJet is an appliance-based solution that uses compression, acceleration technologies to dramatically improve the speed of application traffic over the WAN. WANJet accelerates a wide variety of application traffic types including data replication which is the focus of this discussion, file transfer, email client/server applications and others. WANJet also has some unique features that enable bandwidth to be efficiently allocated amongst different applications, we call it our quality of service, and thereby ensuring that the most critical traffic receives the priority access to the valuable bandwidth. We buy the bandwidth in lot of cases specifically for a particular application, you want to make sure that that application gets its bandwidth.

Michael Johnson – PodTech
Okay, so can WAN acceleration appliances like this actually help in achieving that goal that we were talking about before, that zero RPO?

Kevin Hohenbrink – F5 Networks
Yes. WANJet appliances help to improve throughput. They also mitigate latency of existing networks through such techniques as this compression, our TDR data reduction and transport protocol acceleration. Often the cost of deploying a WANJet appliance at each end of the link is less expensive than the cost of increasing bandwidth. Typically, these appliances can be particularly helpful for enterprises that want to use replication or remote backup between sites, with limited bandwidth to the corporate data center.

Michael Johnson – PodTech
So how is WANJet going to work in that formula, to mitigate that latency?

Kevin Hohenbrink – F5 Networks
In situations where the WAN link, WAN is the bottleneck, WANJet can improve the performance of synchronous and asynchronous replication solutions which in turn can mitigate application latency and its performance impacts on applications.

Michael Johnson – PodTech
Okay. Now you also have this situation that, you know that enterprises that have some replications solutions in place between their data centers and other sites can the WANJet support replication of more data with existing bandwidth as opposed to say adding more, you know?

Kevin Hohenbrink – F5 Networks
Yeah, absolutely. Traditionally business applications like ERP, SCM, CRM as well as messaging and collaborative applications such as email — these are going to continue to grow steadily each year. These are often the very applications that are supportive with remote replication. The WANJet appliance can help enterprises support to continue replication of these applications with existing bandwidth. WANJet uses a QoS technique to guarantee and prioritize data replication over non-data replication applications as we just mentioned.

Michael Johnson – PodTech
Can it also enable the extending replication of other applications as well?

Kevin Hohenbrink – F5 Networks
Yeah. Do the cost replication — most enterprises are very selective about which applications they replicate and which ones they don’t. Usually they limit it to mission critical apps. Today it’s no longer a one-to-one relationship between a business process and application. Business processes now rely on multiple applications and to restore the entire process that means that they’re going to have to coordinate the recovery of the multiple apps. So customers are going to be very pleased to know that these apps that were once deemed only business critical as opposed to mission critical also require replication to another site.

Michael Johnson – PodTech
That was F5 networks Kevin Hohenbrink. This has been the first of a two-part series on data replication, disaster recovery and business continuity. Tune in next time right here on PodTech for Part two of our conversation with Kevin Hohenbrink.

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Tags: Kevin Hohenbrink, F5 Networks, WANJet

Bottom Line: This is good for users. Yahoo! has been working hard for the past year in understanding and integrating RSS into their online business. It’s clear that Yahoo! 2.0 is all about Web 2.0. It’s all about the consumer experience and open media. Yahoo! is leading in this area and taking RSS mainstream and participating in the emerging RSS community. Other key bloggers at the Yahoo! announcement in San Francisco include Dave Winer, Mike Arrington, Om Malik, and Steve Gillmor.

Full Transcript of the Yahoo! Podcast Interview:
Yahoo: Scott Gatz, Sr. Director - RSS & Personalization Platform and Ethan Diamond, Director Product Management - Yahoo! Mail

PodTech: John Furrier, Founder and CEO

John Furrier: Welcome to the PodTech.net InfoTalk exclusive Podcast with Yahoo’s announcement today…with RSS, Yahoo mail integration and alerts. Scott Gatz and Ethan Diamond. Welcome to the PodCast.

Yahoo (Scott Gatz and Ethan Diamond) Thank you.

John Furrier: What is the announcement? You have a lot of moving parts. Basically you are bringing RSS to the mainstream users. Making it easier for consumption and personalization. Getting stuff out there blogs, podcasts etc. What is the announcement about?

Scott Gatz: I’ll take a start John. This is Scott Gatz. When we set out to bring RSS into Yahoo…It has been over two years now. When we first launched RSS on My Yahoo in January of 2004, the goal was really to begin bring RSS to the masses, Making it really easy for consumers get any content they want from all over the Web and bring it all into one place. It has been an amazing progression to see. When we started some of the most popular RSS feeds were things like Slashdot and very tech oriented, but over the years we have seen that general consumers have taken to it, to the point where our research shows that about 31% of Internet users are using RSS whether they know it or not. It seemed like a natural progression. If we really wanted to provide users with what they want in one convenient package, to figure out how we more effectively integrate that across the Yahoo network. Where are the places that users want to see us integrate RSS? That is what we are really excited to talk about today is two new big launches where we have integrated RSS. The first is in our Alerts product. Our Alerts product At Alerts at Yahoo.com allows people to go and sign up and subscribe to real time alerts for all sorts of things — if a stock price reaches a certain limit, if your favorite sports team has won the game, it runs the gambit for all the different types of alerts you can get. Isn’t this a perfect place to integrate RSS? Wouldn’t it be amazing if any RSS feed on the Internet could be made into an alert? What if the moment an RSS feed were updated you can get an SMS alert to your mobile phone, you can an instant message alert in Yahoo messenger or maybe we can even send you an email…as those updates happen. Whether that’s a blog that you track… maybe the blog only posts once every three weeks or so. You don’t want to put that into your aggregate or you don’t want to put that in you’re my Yahoo page, you just want to get an email when that blog updates. WE can help you out there by signing up and we’ll send you that at the moment that it updates. Or maybe you want something a little more real-time. I live in California, so I think about the US Geological Survey. They put out an RSS feed that actually tells me when there are little earthquakes in the area. They actually put out warnings when they think “the big one is coming” I want to know about that and I want to know about that the moment that it happens. So for that alert, I am able to subscribe to that. The moment their RSS feed updates I have it set to give me an SMS message on my mobile phone. So no matter where I am, I able to know “the big one is coming”, not so far fetched.

John Furrier: So from earthquakes to any kind of information that is relevant to any user. Which is hard to figure out, but what you are doing here is you are basically saying to any user, “Whatever is important to you, we will make you aware of it in real-time”.

Scott Gatz: Absolutely. You are talking about the tens of millions of RSS feeds that are now out there having become INSTANTLY “alertable”. You can get alerts on any of them. You give us the RSS URL that you would like us to track, and the moment it is updated we can alert you by IM, SMS or email.

John Furrier: A lot of times when I am looking at blogs…and blogs and news in particular… are really an important part of this new shift with RSS and Web 2.0. A lot of times my life takes me out of the mode of being real-time. It is hard. I miss a lot. How are you guys looking at RSS from an alert standpoint? Do I have to be at my computer? Is this announcement going to be on platforms like mobile devices?

Scott Gatz: Absolutely. I think that is one of the things. There are some times where there is information when you are happy to go to your own personal page and check into it. But other times you want the information to come to you wherever you are at, and that is why we have integrated with Yahoo Messenger. You can get a pop-up while using Yahoo Messenger with the information that, “Hey, this feed is updated”. Or you can get it on your mobile phone via and SMS message. So no matter where you are at, we will help deliver that you in an easy and pretty simple way.

John Furrier: How do you figure out the Instant Messenger piece … with users who just want to talk to each other? Is this going to be interruptive to users?

Scott Gatz: Not at all. It will look just like any other Instant Message that you get through your messenger line. A window will come up and say, “Hey we’ve got a message for you, would you like to read it?” If so, you can click through and go over to the website and read the full information. It is a non-obtrusive way to get that information out to you.

John Furrier: So people can interact better with the content.

Scott Gatz: Absolutely.

John Furrier: Because they are alerted to it. You guys also talk about in the announcement, “Yahoo expands the RSS platform, adds RSS feeds into Yahoo Mail beta and Yahoo Alerts”, which you just talked about. Everyone in the industry knows that you have had RSS around for a while. Like HTTP the protocol that makes web-browsing in the early days of the web, RSS has been in Yahoo, My Yahoo… in with all three Yahoo. What specific extensions are you talking about around RSS? What does it mean to the users?

Scott Gatz: Yes, I think that ultimately different people want to consume content in different ways. Some people feel completely comfortable with having a personalized start page…like My Yahoo… getting headlines, getting their dashboard to their online life all on one page. But other people… maybe they are used to spending more time in their Yahoo Mail experience. We have 227 million unique users that use Yahoo Mail…that used it in the month of October. When you think about that large audience, of folks that feel comfortable in the email environment…we looked at that and said, “Well, if our goal is really to bring RSS to the masses, isn’t that where the masses are?” How can we bring the idea of personally relevant content to them where they are? (Which is email, which is where they feel comfortable.) Ethan and my teams have worked really closely together to actually figure out “how do we do that” and “how do we make Yahoo Mail the place to consume RSS?”

John Furrier: We are here with Ethan Diamond the Product Manager – Product Management for Yahoo Mail. Talk about Yahoo Mail. Everyone knows about mail; they have been using email. Email has been the killer app for the Web for years, but now it is getting more complex. There are news sites and there are blogs. There are RSS extensions. Most people look at their life through the email window (and IM) for the most part.

Ethan Diamond: True.

John Furrier: What are you guys doing with the Yahoo Mail in this announcement that is a little bit different, and how does RSS play in that?

Ethan Diamond: I think there are basically three reasons why you would want RSS integrated into your mail experience. The first one, you just hit on, is more and more people are using mail as the hub of their entire Internet experience. They sit in front of their email clients all day long. They get not just email, but photos from friends. They get favorite bookmarks or links from friends. So having news be a part of that and not making people leave their mail client is a good idea. It is natural. The second part of is that when you read a news story I think the most common activity you perform, besides sort of absorbing the information, is sharing it with friends. If you are inside a web browser it is always awkward to find or email this article link… if it exists at all. If you are inside of a stand alone RSS reader or aggregator, you don’t have your contacts there. Whereas, if you are inside your email client, you have got your entire address book. You can select a post and share it with a friend and have address auto complete, for example. That is something that is definitely part of this release. We can talk about it in a second. The third reason that I would say that it makes a whole lot of sense to integrate RSS right into a middle reader is that it is a familiar environment for people. We are not forcing anybody to go out and download and install a new application in order to get what RSS is and “give it a shot”. They are in an environment that they already “get”; they are in an interface that they already understand. What you will see when this rolls out is that RSS is just another folder in your folder list, essentially. When a feed contains new information it lights up, and you can click on it. You can read posts just like they were email.

John Furrier: So basically you are taking the experience from browsing…where readers are… and then websites (which is mostly blog content and news sites). So much information is coming at people. You are actually integrating into the mail client.

Ethan Diamond: That’s right. We are doing it in a way that I think that actually solves the problem of information overload…rather than making it worse. What we have done is rather than just feeding posts into your Inbox or feeding them into a folder as email, we present it in a way that is really familiar to people (from reading blogs). We show the full post in sort of a “blog view”. We detect whether a feed is a “blog style” feed…in which case we display it in one way. We also detect if is more of a “news summary”… kind of a “headline feed”… in which case we display it differently. That just makes the whole process of absorbing the information a whole lot easier. One other thing that we have done to make it easier to use RSS is … we have in addition to all of the feeds that you subscribe to… we have something called the “meta feed” or feed of feeds. It’s a river of news style aggregators. When you look at the application, all of your feeds are underneath a folder, essentially, that says “All our RSS feeds”. When you click on that it shows you, in reverse chronological order, an interlaced view… a news ticker type of view of each post of each feed that you subscribe to in the order in which it was published. What that allows me to do is now rather than looking at all of the feeds that I subscribe to and seeing which ones have lit up, and have new content… I keep that folder closed and I just look at “what is their content overall”…in all the feeds I subscribe to. I just click on that once and I read my feeds…the ones that I want to share with people. I click on them. I can forward those posts to friends as emails. I can even select those posts and drag them into folders. I can archive them, and then I can switch right back to my Inbox and keep reading my email. It is a very seamless experience. It is very natural for people who are familiar with the email interface to make the transition into this interface.

John Furrier: Basically what you guys are saying is that there is so much online content from so many different sources…there is so much diversity. On one end with the Alerts, you are making it convenient for people to get things in a timely manner… to interact with stuff that is important to them. Then on the Yahoo Mail side you are basically making it easier and saving time for people. People can spend their whole day reading blog posts.

Ethan Diamond: That’s right.

John Furrier: You are integrating into the mail client, because people have their attention there already?

Ethan Diamond: That’s right. They have their attention there and also ,… simply the idea of RSS itself. Instead of you having to go scan the ten websites that you are interested in for new content; it is just going to tell you when those sites publish new content. You end up saving time by not having to go out and find that information.

John Furrier: Yahoo is hardcore on RSS. Now it is going main stream. When can people get the Yahoo Mail beta? Is it available immediately? Where is the user experience going from a Yahoo perspective? Obviously, you are having mobile devices with the Alerts (and being convenient). What is the big picture in terms of where it is going next?
Ethan Diamond: Sure I can talk a little bit about the “when” for Yahoo Mail and then I’ll let Scott talk about the big picture. For “when” … tomorrow everyone who is a user of the Yahoo Mail beta will see RSS integrated into it. The actual date for when the Yahoo Mail beta will go GA, we don’t know, because we are actually in the process of doing a lot of testing of the interface in a lot of different areas. The actual date depends on the results of those tests. As part of this release, we are broadening the beta pool by quite a bit.

John Furrier: Okay great… and Scott the big picture on RSS? Obviously, you are taking something technical and making it main stream.

Scott Gatz: Absolutely. In all the steps we have been making…in the year 2005 we have launched something in the RSS area every month of this year. We see this as a nice way to begin to end the year… to bring RSS to the largest mainstream audience that there is… 227 million unique users on mail. This is the direction we want to be able to see going. We recognize that people consume RSS differently. Some want to read it on their mobile device, some want to read on their on personalized home page….in their Inbox, some want to be tapped on the shoulder when their feed has been updated, some want to read it on Yahoo news, and some people want to search through it. Some people want to do a little bit of all of that. The great thing about Yahoo is we learn about you, we learn about what sources you care about, and we integrate all of those pieces so they come together. If you are at your home computer, your work computer… on your phone, no matter where you are at… that information should follow you. It shouldn’t be tied to one computer… one software application. It should follow you wherever you go. That is the benefit of personalization on Yahoo… the idea that it knows who you are, it remembers those things and makes them easier and easier… as we integrate it throughout the entirety of Yahoo…wherever you want it to be.

John Furrier: We are here at a PodTech Exclusive announcement of Yahoo expanding their RSS platform… adding feeds into Yahoo Mail, offering Alerts… with Scott Gatz and Ethan Diamond. Final word to end the segment here about RSS and mail?

Scott Gatz: I hope that we have been able to layout, and I hope that everyone will have a chance to take a look at the steps we have made to really give a rich, robust experience around the whole concept of RSS. When we explain these benefits to consumers they really love the idea of being able to pull anything they care about all into one experience… the way they want it, when they want it. It has been exciting for us, and we hope that the consumers love it as well.

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Sign up for the Yahoo! Mail RSS beta

Even though the article was off base I looked at the article in a positive light. With Podcasting for example those fears that are being promoted in the story can be eliminated by companies. Lyons is right in one regard - brands WILL be hurt if they ignore the format that consumers are demanding (blogs and podcasts), but it’s not because of bloggers it’s because of the social change. If companies use podcasting and blogging to their advantage, then they can participate rather than sitting on the sidelines. It’s an issue of being proactive versus reactive. Marketers are taking advantage of this medium successfully.

Full Transcript - Click Here: Steve Forbes first podcast another PodTech Exclusive

Guest: Steve Forbes, CEO & Editor in Chief, Forbes Inc
Host: John Furrier, Founder & CEO, PodTech.Network, Inc

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Sound Bytes:

John Furrier – Founder, PodTech
A question on technology, because this brings up the global economy that we live in. People are now connected. People work on virtual teams and technology has been a big impact recently

Steve Forbes – President and CEO of Forbes Inc
Technology makes everything more immediate, makes it more real, rather than abstract. You hear earthquake, “Oh, to bad!” But it’s hard to conjure up in your mind what it actually means. When there was the tsunami, when you see video, when you see photographs instantly, guess what, it becomes very real. It also means our response times have to be faster. In times past, it would be days, weeks before any relief got there and no one would even know about it, or really care about it. Today everyone says, “It happened a minute ago, where’s the relief? Why aren’t you there?” So I think that you get a much better, faster response time. Even though, Pakistan and parts of India, there has been massive suffering because literally, the roads were closed. But many more would have died in the world we lived in thirty or forty years ago because there wouldn’t have been those images because there wouldn’t have been that instant information that could direct precisely where the aid needs to go. We didn’t have the technology to deliver that aid via sophisticated air ships, the helicopters, so it’s all to the good. Expectations go up, but the demand for performance goes up, very uncomfortable, human nature being what it is we are never satisfied, it’s never fast enough, but by golly but it is much more responsive when you see it instantly then it was just a few years ago.

I think as broadband becomes a common place, full broadband, not what we have now. Maybe the equivalent of a thousand T1 lines in the next ten years that everyone will have. The possibility of delivery of services. What it means in terms of communication around the world. In terms of creating things we hadn’t even thought of before is going to be profound. iPod. Where was iPod five years ago? Non existent. That is what’s going to gin the thing up and it’s not just going to be new industries, new services, new products. Existing companies are going to figure out how to use this technology. They are going to transform themselves and be able to provide what we think of as traditional services in ways we can’t imagine today.

In talking about the Flat Tax Revolution Steve mentions the role of blogs and blogging. He says “You can get involved: either being part of a blog, starting a blog, participating in talk shows, writing letters to the editor of your local daily or weekly newspapers, calling your representatives. Simple stuff. We show you how to do it. If enough people start to do it, guess what? Things start to happen and one of the great things about this whole electronic era we’re in is you can create communities much faster than you could before.”

John Furrier – Founder, PodTech
No barriers to entry. The blogging has proven that.

Steve Forbes – President and CEO of Forbes Inc
No barriers to entry and you can find like minded folk, persuade other people and start to put pressure in a way that was just inconceivable a few years ago.

Read the Entire Transcript - Click Here